Curse

Redfeather1975 · Oct 03, 2007, 10:25 AM // 10:25

I just got bored of killing stuff.
After 50,000 battles in the past year and a half I think GW game play got too repetitive for me.
I mean killing stuff is basically what everything boils down to. I don't think there is anything in the GW universe that doesn't rely on killing stuff.
I'm surprised I played it this long to be honest. I've gone back to playing Oblivion. Where I try very hard to get things done in creative ways that avoid killing stuff. I'm a nice guy in that game. lol

gazbell · Oct 03, 2007, 11:04 AM // 11:04

Having read the original post and some in-between, I get the feeeling that there is a lot of negativity flying around re ANET and what they have "done" to "our" game.

I'm not trying to defend ANET in any way, but feel that we, as a community could be more pro-active in our criticism of how the game plays, what new features, content, whatever... we would like to see introduced. There are many points, and valid at that, that have been raised by a number of people throughout this thread. I am sure that ANET do take note of our opinions and fears etc but I think we need to be realistic in what can be included and what cannot; essentially GW is a Game, and as such should be treated as one. It is meant to be fun, the experience can be shared or not as you like and after everything is said and done you either like it or you don't, with the obvious extrapolotation to follow..

Personally, I love the fact that I can enjoy it with friends (Guildies), ppl I meet because I help them or vice versa, or when I feel like it, play on my own, solo stuff or with henchies/hero's. There are some parts of the game that are better than other's (in my opinion), some have to be endured to enable me to do the things that I like, but overall I love the whole GW experience. ANET have a duty to provide the best gaming experience possible to themselves, us the consumer and I believe they have done their best to achieve this. The big thing with games like Guild Wars is to remember that the new things introduced such as Hero's have been done so because there was a feeling that the game would be enhanced by doing so; more importantly, that is what we, as a community, asked for (or something similar). Finally, if your not enjoying the experience ask yourself why? Is it really beacuse they nerffed something etc or is it because it's time you moved on?

Me, I'm happy, but that's me and that's why I will continue to invest my time in enjoying GW's, when I stop doing that I'll question why and do something about it

roperratt · Oct 03, 2007, 01:02 PM // 13:02

This month marks 2 years I have been in the game. I love the game and still play every chance I get. I am a proto-typical "casual" gamer. I have a wife and kids, job, mortgage, and car payments. I remember the thrill of the game when I started. I also miss that thrill. Thats not to say I wont be up saturday night playing away somewhere in the GW universe. I wouldn't mind the grinding for armor in GW:EN if it wasn't for the fact that I have a lot of chars. I love the look of the spectacles. I was gonna get them on all my chars. After spending the hours to get them on my main ranger, i kinda had a change of heart. I'm a casual player, I'm not gonna spend the hours to get fricken glasses on 11 chars, mainly cause I would really like to keep my job and stay married. All of my chars have max armor, but I dont plan on spending my hard earned gold on elite armor for all.

I worry about getting into PUGs because I don't have the flavor of the month build. And high enough norn/asuran/LB rank. I remember trying vainly to get into a PUG in vizunah square with my tyian ranger when factions came out, remember I have a job and a family, I can't be on 24-7. NOBODY wanted rangers. Finally after over a week, a bunch of us put together a PUG at 3 in the morning, it wasn't a by the book team but we got through it. Now i fear my ranger will never be wanted in groups because I dont have a high enough norn/asuran/LB rank. I tried to get into a PUG to kill murakai (I lust for her sword) and no one wanted a ranger (my ranger collects swords) (she doesn't use them, I just like the way they look.) I H/H it and managed to finish it. It wasn't pretty, but it was doable. it probably would have been more fun in a PUG but GW has changed, and fun PUGs are as dead as Rurik. (On a side note, Storm of souls or whatever that chicks skill is, is stupidly over powered. Holy Hobby Horse Batman, when I go in to fight the boss with a 10% Morale boost and finally finish the fight 45 minutes later with 60% DP, that I 've been having to deal with for 43 minutes, the skill is a tad over powered.) (I used the vilest language I've used in years, I called curses down on the lineage of Jeff Strain, Gayle and all the devs at GW, going from fighting to dead in a microsecond is ridiculous.)(but thats another thread, and yes I've finally figured out how to kill her with my R/P and a H/H team without dying.)(So please dont call me a noob or give me fricken tips.)

I do see where the game has lost some of its flavor. When I started playing, it was with a group of 10 guys here at work. I am now the last one standing, and have been for about 10 months. I've actually bought the accounts off of 2 guys here, to give to my kids. So A-net can say they sold 4 million games, but how many OGs are still here? And really, who calls the crap you guys put out "40 New" armours. A-net kinda screwed the pooch on that.

Talon one · Oct 03, 2007, 02:32 PM // 14:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rahja the Thief

Casual players are those that login for 30mins-1hr per day, have a small group of friends, and don't think much of the game. A casual player can still have green items and 15k armor, it just takes them a longer period to get it. With this new r5 requirement to even speak with the armor crafter, it will discourage if not completely shut out a casual player from these 40 new armor sets. Yet, that player was under the impression that those new armor sets were there for him/her, because Guild Wars is supposed to be for the casual player just as much as the hardcore player.

and how exactly would a casual player pay for a set of 15k armor? i played early prophecies and i was able to buy 1 maybe piece of 15k armor a week, if i played a lot.
i have gotten to rank 5 on several characters by now (with systematic questing and vanquishing) - and i always earned around 10-15k on the way. which allowed me to buy exactly 1 piece of the new armor, leaving me free to grind for the rest of the armor the old fashioned way

the amount of grind for elite content is still roughly the same, it has just switched from pure gold+materials to titles+gold. i actually like that change because you cant get the armor by ebaying or solofarming for an evening.

in my opinion the only real problem for casual players is the lack of cheap armor. every other campaign had a couple of 1,5k sets that casual players could buy, now they get nothing but high level stuff.
in my opinion, the gw:en armor should have different tiers. like the monument armor, because its a cheap reskin anyway, should be available at rank 3. asuran, because a lot of ppl will want the cool spectacles, at rank 4. norn armor at rank 5 because its actually new. and dwarven/eagle, if it were cooler, at rank 6.

Cats · Oct 04, 2007, 04:58 AM // 04:58

I agree with most of what the OP has said. GW used to have a really neat community. I remember I'd be able to hang out at an outpost and actually have a quality one hour conversation with a complete stranger. Piken's Square used to be the social zone, and random people would be getting together to dance. Sure, some people played bad, but everyone tried together, and it was never a pain to PUG. No leaving halfway, no spamming, no yelling noob. Many of these people have left, and in their place - bots, cyber bullies, and others who like to keep to themselves. I get the feeling the early group of people were more RP based, and GW did not satisfy their demands. Instead they went the path of typical MMO grinding, which attracts the associated people.

Winterclaw · Oct 04, 2007, 06:26 AM // 06:26

Does anyone remember those old GU comics about "the vision"?

arsie · Oct 04, 2007, 06:58 AM // 06:58

Grinding is a method in which the developer can give you less new content for your playing time by making you do something repeatedly. That is a major component in almost all MMO, and quite a lot of single player games as well.

The opposite of Grind is to play through and experience every bit of a game's content once. There should be no difference between a casual or a hardcore player with regards to this. There might be a difference between a good player and a poor player, because the latter might not be able to get pass certain stages of the game.

I think GW is quite successful at being the opposite of Grind. That is not to say that there is 0% Grind in GW. If you play through all the quests and got blessings in all the zones, you will be quite close to the 10,000 proceed to the mission.

So that is experiencing those zones and doing all the quests available, once.

Sunspear requirements for quests and missions is also quite close to what you will get by playing through the game content once. There is no Lightbringer requirement, but certain Missions like Grand Court of Sebelkeh is quite hard if you do not have Lightbringer Gaze, which will require some grinding to achieve at that stage in the game.

sassoonssamson · Oct 04, 2007, 08:12 AM // 08:12

I do agree with the thread starters 1st post
Till Nightfall I was proud to say that I never did any GRINDING within the game .
Althought I play a lot in The Deep and FOW..But thats by choice and not forced to

With EOTN came the concept of GRIND and its ridiculous The developers are breaking the very 1st rule whu GW came into existence
Then I started to grind I badly wanted the woad on my warrior so started spending endless hours just kill for norn rep points
I got my woad .Then i wanted specs which are crafted by asura but then i was so fed up that I didnt want to grind anymore for the 5 th rank

Imagine the FOW armor obsdian if that was connected to rank and not to completing elite quests in FOW that would be stupid .

gremlin · Oct 04, 2007, 08:18 AM // 08:18

I never thought I would provide an argument against any rpg element in gw, I like my role playing games and although gw isnt pure rpg it does ok.
I think that's what the titles are or were intended to represent.

Ok I may think I am just repeating an area killing the same mobs again and again but to the locals I am clearing their homeland of enemies.
This would be fine and dandy if such clearing had a noticable effect for that character and areas became cleared.
Then other challenges could occur in that place.

But the limitation of gw is that the storyline is the only true rpg element, jump back to a town already visited and the story backtracks.
Join a party and its the same experience for all even though one member has completed the game.
Don't know how they could have made it different, any changes/improvements/nerfs made to the game just please/annoy a different group.

Once you reach a particular point the game is over apart from grind or repeating with other characters.

They could I feel either allow you to complete the game without grind content to achieve extra armor etc, in which case some would complete in a week and moan.
Or do what they do now.
GW2 may well be different it will be an amazing achievement if they succeed.

Drat said Alexander I have conquered the known world and only have 2 sets of special armor.
Lets do it all again he cried AGAIN ! said the army and that's why he died aged 32

freekedoutfish · Oct 04, 2007, 08:26 AM // 08:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by sassoonssamson

I do agree with the thread starters 1st post
Till Nightfall I was proud to say that I never did any GRINDING within the game .
Althought I play a lot in The Deep and FOW..But thats by choice and not forced to

With EOTN came the concept of GRIND and its ridiculous The developers are breaking the very 1st rule whu GW came into existence
Then I started to grind I badly wanted the woad on my warrior so started spending endless hours just kill for norn rep points
I got my woad .Then i wanted specs which are crafted by asura but then i was so fed up that I didnt want to grind anymore for the 5 th rank

Imagine the FOW armor obsdian if that was connected to rank and not to completing elite quests in FOW that would be stupid .

I dont see the difference in you grinding quests in FOW and the deep, because you chose to. And grinding ranks in GWEN titles because you chose to.

You cant advercate one grind and not the other, just because its less fun from your perspective.

As for badly wanting the woad on your warrior, you chose to do that! You didnt need that woad in anyway shape or form. The game wasnt going to stop without it.

And rank 5 is doable with just quests and dungeons.

SotiCoto · Oct 04, 2007, 08:33 AM // 08:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aeon221

What the holy hand grenade?! Turtle humping gerbils, you MIGHT be a stereotype if...

Yes, I'm still pale-skinned and wear glasses..... and proud of it.

Quote:

I've done my bit to try to improve the community. All I can say is head to Ascalon City D1 and do your part to help the world. If you catch em early, there's still hope.

I stick to improving things for individuals. "Communities" aren't my business. I help personages on a 1-on-1 business if at all, and don't treat them as numbers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rahja the Thief

Umm, wtf? I have a PS3 and somehow I am a Sony fanboy? No, my PC crashed because Phase CHange cooling can be a pain in the neck at times (particularly if you tinker with PCs as much as I do).

I love my PS3, and if you think Final Fantasy series are "casual", you are mistaken.

I own an XBX360, Wii, PS3, An Insanely high powered PC that is almost due for yet more upgrades, an N64, a PS2, an original XBOX, a Dreamcast, and even a PS1 and Super Nintendo (the last two systems no longer function, but make great door stops)

I consider myself a technology guru, having to have the best without always having the funds to do so. Now, if I could just have the Cell processor in the PS3 predict the lottery numbers, I would have it made.

On the shelf and plugged in I keep my X-Box 360, original X-Box, Wii and Gamecube.
I had a Dreamcast... but that unfortunately broke.
I have a still-functional Saturn, Megadrive (or Genesis to those west of the Atlantic) and Mega-CD... Likewise to one side I have my handheld collection of the DS, GBA:SP, Gameboy Color and the only remaining part of my original Gameboy (the cover for the battery-compartment).

Technologically speaking, I might not be quite as knowledgeable as you seem to be. My PC isn't all that impressive (and I'm saving up the cash to get a new Alienware piece)... But I am a gamer of the Pre-16-bit generation (started on Amiga), I saw the changes that S*ny caused to public attitude of gaming, and personally consider it to have ruined the gaming industry as I knew it. They marketted to entirely the wrong sort of people and encouraged the industry to start catering to what effectively are non-gamers rather than those playing from the beginning.
Irrespective what the tech in their consoles might be, I refuse to give them any of my money for what they've done. It is unforgivable.

Quote:

Note: Sony is already suffering enough trying to turn profit on the PS3. Remember, the PS3 isn't overpriced, everything else is just technologically inferior. Sony loses a large chunk of money on each PS3. They are trying their best, give them credit. They made some mistakes in the marketing department, and even though the Cell processor is amazing, it may have been too early to use that powerful of a processor on the public market, let alone a gaming console.

Serves them right if they are. After the disgustingly dishonourable corporate dealings of the company so far, it is about damned time they slipped up. Though it is perhaps too much to ask for, I hope upon hope that S*ny crash and burn so badly that they never get up again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinraith

There's your problem. Mods are the principle strength of any TES game, buy them on a console and you lose out on the incredible wealth of community content (and fixes) that makes them really worth playing over and over.

While I'm aware of the mod-factor in games like Morrowind and Oblivion (I have BOTH versions of Morrowind) .... one shouldn't discount the value of the unmodded game either. I was a modder for Morrowind myself... and I remember the discussions that took place when Oblivion was first coming out. I suppose it is difficult for me to remove that deeply engrained concept in my mind that Oblivion mods would be that much more difficult to make...
And afterall.... it isn't the playing of the mods that is the real strength of the TES games... but the making thereof. If I couldn't mod it myself then I wouldn't get half so much out of it.

SuperDave · Oct 04, 2007, 09:05 AM // 09:05

I also have 9 characters, who all want the newest armor/weapons. Getting all 9 up to the same lvl/part in a campaign is just not feasible anymore. I'm now sticking to 1 character, which kinda sucks. I like the variation of playing with a different profession after playing through a campaign with my monk. It breathes fresh air into the game (for me anyway) to play with different professions in all areas of the game.

With title/rep point grinding this isn't fun anymore.

Jongo River · Oct 04, 2007, 09:11 AM // 09:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

I dont see the difference in you grinding quests in FOW and the deep, because you chose to. And grinding ranks in GWEN titles because you chose to.

You cant advercate one grind and not the other, just because its less fun from your perspective.

Personally, I wouldn't advocate either, but the difference with FoW is that it isn't in your face. There's no NPC sneering at you in Ascalon. You have to already be into elite dungeons before you even encounter the crafter. A casual player wouldn't necessarily even hear about it, unless they read sites like this.

And, of course, FoW is *supposed* to be the most elite. Though, for what it's worth, I've always considered FoW to be slackly implemented. I get that the idea is to limit it to elite players, but the simple mechanism they used (high cost) merely limits it to farmers, powertraders, ebayers, anyone who gets lucky with a rare birthday mini or has been around long enough (I'm about 150K from it, if I were bothered).

They *could* have implemented a system (for FoW) whereby players are awarded a token for each significant gameplay achievement - each token granting the right to have a single piece crafted. Make those tokens customized and award them only the first time you (for example) complete a particular campaign with all bonuses, get a win in HoH, or complete all quests in an elite dungeon. Then make the cost in proportion to other armours - high but not stupidly so - say 25K per piece and no ridiculous amount of ectos on top of that. The cost would be lower, but you and your character really would have earned it in a far more measurable way.

But that's besides the point. I'm happy for the most elite set to take an age to acquire, regardless of the mechanic. Other armours, I want access to as I play the game. There's no point in them being there, if they're all end-game (esp. in GWEN) or "grinders only".

Let me kit myself out for my journey, *not* my retirement.

Lonesamurai · Oct 04, 2007, 09:14 AM // 09:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperDave

I also have 9 characters, who all want the newest armor/weapons. Getting all 9 up to the same lvl/part in a campaign is just not feasible anymore. I'm now sticking to 1 character, which kinda sucks. I like the variation of playing with a different profession after playing through a campaign with my monk. It breathes fresh air into the game (for me anyway) to play with different professions in all areas of the game.

With title/rep point grinding this isn't fun anymore.

So you have 9 characters that don't have max armour or weapons?

I made a new warrior the other day in Nightfall, got him to Consulate Docks and he had max Armour then... Hell, he had max weapons back in Chebek Village thanks to GotY and prerelease weapons, but again, I jumped to my guild hall and bought him a max weapon from there... took me two days of CASUAL play to get the gold, materials and experience

Darkobra · Oct 04, 2007, 10:26 AM // 10:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redfeather1975

I just got bored of killing stuff.
After 50,000 battles in the past year and a half I think GW game play got too repetitive for me.
I mean killing stuff is basically what everything boils down to. I don't think there is anything in the GW universe that doesn't rely on killing stuff.
I'm surprised I played it this long to be honest. I've gone back to playing Oblivion. Where I try very hard to get things done in creative ways that avoid killing stuff. I'm a nice guy in that game. lol

That's the same reason I got bored.

Finish this objective! BY KILLING! Save the Prince! BY KILLING! Your leader was captured! BECAUSE SHE WAS KILLING! The story got stale after a while, you end up with all the armours and weapons you want, you amass great wealth, realise that you already have EVERYTHING you want, give it away to people who don't have what they want... And then you find new games.

I started Oblivion recently, too. Finished it and the Shivering Isles expansion. That was definitely far more story involved than GW. Shame it was far too short, though. GW is massive in comparison and takes a bit of time to do the things you want. But after that? It's all the same.

Final Fantasy 7, there was far, FAR more to do than just killing. There was a mini-arcade, (The Gold Saucer for those of you familiar with it) there were treasure hunts for the rarer, more powerful weapons, there was a large map with so much to do, so much to hunt and actual rewards for hunting these things down.

Eye of the North had my hopes up. It really did. It promised us a great game, story, and once all was said and done with, mini games to keep us going. The mini games typically finished in 10 minutes and the dungeons leaving little to imagination. It was all just a major disappointment.

I am seriously hoping GW2 will be at least somewhat decent. If not, it's a dead series for me and back to games more involved with story, like Shin Megami Tensei and Final Fantasy.

freekedoutfish · Oct 04, 2007, 10:41 AM // 10:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jongo River

Personally, I wouldn't advocate either, but the difference with FoW is that it isn't in your face..

I could agrue otherwis, by saying you see alot of people running around in FOW armor. You see elementas in FOW armor all the time and that is in your face!

I dont quite understand how anything in GWEN which requires grind is "in your face" though?

The title ranks only effect armor, weapons, pve only skills and the status effects. The armor and weapons are in your face, but rank 5 is easy to get (i cant highlight that enough)! For that reason I dont count them.

The pve only skills you get from quests and minigames, so there isnt a sign post saying "get your skills here NOW", unlike a skill trainer NPC. You can avoid the pve only skills if you really wanted to. Plus the most important ones you get from quests and that acid one is the only really important one IMO.

The status effects do show up in the corner, but even so! Do you spend every 2 seconds staring at it thinking "hmmm its not high enough...". I know I dont! The status effects dont really add that much in GWEN anyway.

I'm currently working on rank 8 on all my ranks, but that isnt due to pressure or a need! Its just cos I have nothing else to do. I could stop and do something else if I wanted and I wouldnt feel like im loosing out.

Im actually not playing the game until monday when my new PC arrives, so that shows I dont feel any huge pressure to keep increasing any ranks.

garethporlest18 · Oct 04, 2007, 10:47 AM // 10:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkobra

I started Oblivion recently, too. Finished it and the Shivering Isles expansion. That was definitely far more story involved than GW. Shame it was far too short, though. GW is massive in comparison and takes a bit of time to do the things you want. But after that? It's all the same.

Oblivion's content comes from it's mods. There's so much more you can do once you bring mods into the picture. I play Oblivion for desktop backgrounds because it's so beautiful.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redfeather1975

I have Oblivion on PC and 360.
I bought the 360 version because whenever I was playing the PC version I found myself looking for mods or making mods rather than playing the game!

I just wanted to play a vanilla Oblivion without any temptation. Although I miss Oscuro's Oblivion Overhaul mod.

Hahahaha I know that problem big time with that game. I never get past level 5 >_<.

As for the OP. Well you know what, after 2 years, farming nerfs, changes I didn't like, good changes too though..I don't really care anymore. I never really picked this game up for the skill>time thing in the first place, I liked the titles at first I was like oh something new to do! I've done that with every bit of content they added. I got my 2 years of fun out of this game so I'm not gonna worry about it too much.

I play what's fun really, and I love to complain so if there's public to complain too and I can have fun while doing it, then I'm there. Guild Wars is that game! Hahahaha.

MrSlayer · Oct 04, 2007, 12:43 PM // 12:43

I have spoken to alot of people who would disagree saying that "You don't need to grind to enjoy this game" and I'm sorry, but with EotN this could not be further from the truth.

Gold is no huge issue. If you want to make money in ANY game, you either need to be able to play the market well or farm. Farming is a fixed grind, or in game money would be worthless.

But looking at EotN. If you want any of the new armor, you have to grind. If you want to get the elite pet, you don't have to JUST complete the game. You have to complete the game and then grind. If you want to get the best use out of PvE skills, you don't get it based on time or experience, you have to grind. It is ridiculously un-like Prophecies seemed to be when it started out. I have to say that, from my PoV, GW:EN has seemed like a half-assed attempt at a quick release to keep people from leaving before GW2 whilst also getting more people interested in GW.

I mean sure, nice graphics and good gameplay. I will admit, I enioy alot (if not most) of the features in GW:EN. But it seems ill-thought out, and the number of things which people disagree with, or which seem half-assed (IE, the end of the storyline. Seriously wtf?) is just stunning.

Anyway, I still enjoy PvE and probably always will. I have nothing better to play until I decide whether or not I'm getting GW2, so I guess I'll just be grinding out of a simple lack of other things to do. No big deal.

Just my 2 cents.

Longasc · Oct 04, 2007, 12:56 PM // 12:56

I think the problem is that GWEN has lots of repetitive content like recycled dungeons.

Veterans are only left with one thing till GW2 is out: Title maxing grind.

You do not need to do it, but the HoM and the promised item unlocks for GW2 are the carrot.

Bryant Again · Oct 04, 2007, 01:03 PM // 13:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by garethporlest18

Oblivion's content comes from it's mods. There's so much more you can do once you bring mods into the picture. I play Oblivion for desktop backgrounds because it's so beautiful.

I got about 12 pictures of the skies in Shivering Isles. Gorgeous.

Quote:

Originally Posted by garethporlest18

Hahahaha I know that problem big time with that game. I never get past level 5 >_<.

Lol, thanks to you I can't make it past level *2* without hopping over to Leyawin and picking up the Blade of WTFPWNING! People pinball ftw.

Quote:

Originally Posted by garethporlest18

I play what's fun really, and I love to complain so if there's public to complain too and I can have fun while doing it, then I'm there. Guild Wars is that game! Hahahaha.

Q f t fo sho.